Avatar photo

Contributor

Author Bio ▼

Adam Bannister is a contributor to IFSEC Global, having been in the role of Editor from 2014 through to November 2019. Adam also had stints as a journalist at cybersecurity publication, The Daily Swig, and as Managing Editor at Dynamis Online Media Group.
May 21, 2014

Download

Whitepaper: Enhancing security, resilience and efficiency across a range of industries

“Proper Fire Safety Costs Money – and Everyone Wants a Bargain”: Simon Ince Q&A

Simon Ince will discuss the barriers to building fire-safe buildings in the Installers & Maintenance Theatre at IFSEC International 2014, on 18 June between 12:30pm-1pm 

FIREX-logo-162

Register your interest to visit FIREX 2014 now.

When: 17-19 June 2014
Where: ExCeL, London

From a big reduction in building control to corner-cutting in fire-risk assessment – Simon Ince, a passionate advocate for fire safety, has much to be frustrated about.

The strategic alliance and partnership manager at Warrington Certification Limited, a world leader in fire safety and security certification, also tells IFSEC Global that apathy and complacency are often as much a danger as financial constraints.

IFSEC Global: How hard is it to persuade people of the importance of vigilance against such rare, albeit devastating, events as fire?

 Simon Ince: Sometimes the fire industry isn’t switched on enough to engage with the people who need educating. The fire sector is very good at talking to the fire sector but not too good at getting the message out there to those responsible for fire safety in UK buildings.

The UK government wants the sector to educate and inform but without some financial backing from them to fund initiatives and help with new guidance, the ‘good will’ from stakeholders can only go so far. It is currently a disparate and slow process with limited impact.

IG: Perhaps complacency lies behind the fact that campaigns to make sprinklers mandatory in new homes have so far failed…

 SI: Who’s going to benefit? People who are vulnerable, who can’t evacuate themselves  [like in care homes]. People with drink and drugs problems, people in sheltered accommodation or hostels – they’re more likely to set themselves alight or do something stupid.

In new domestic homes it would be a really useful addition. But it’s the cost of installing sprinklers in the first place that is putting developers off; and who buys a house because it is sprinklered? The only way to get sprinklers in domestic new builds is to make it mandatory. However a blanket approach wouldn’t be welcome by all, so any introduction must be on a risk based approach.

IG: The nebulous state of fire-risk assessment regulations is a bugbear of yours…Simon-ince-profile

SI: It all comes down to money. Doing it properly costs you money and everyone wants a bargain.

If one assessor can do a fire risk assessment for £25 and another can do it for £350 – which one will you go for? But are you getting the same thing? Often not!

We’ve recently completed an audit for a London housing association and we think the assessor used did 10 medium and high rise residential blocks in one day. The auditor we used said “no chance – I’d spend at least 2-3 hours in each one of these – at least”. The original assessor must have run around each building whilst completing his fire risk assessment; that to me is scary.

The government has made it clear they’re not going to put any new legislation in place to regulate fire risk assessors. We’ve got best practice guidance in place that isn’t being used – people aren’t aware of how they should be selecting a competent risk assessor.

Those assessors who tender for social housing are under so much pressure. Sometimes Eighty percent of the tender bid weighting is on costs alone.  They want the work done cheap or cheap and that’s it – there are no other prerequisites in there.

The ‘cheap’ criterion is also reflected in other fire safety fields. The industry supports using third-party-approved installers and products but as soon as you go outside the industry to the people on the ground, they don’t specify it.

It’s not the certification cost adding cost to the work; it’s the cost of doing it right in the first place. I’ve known people lose a tender to a bid worth less than the value of the materials needed for the job. They’re cutting corners to win the work.

The big guys are going in and subcontracting out, maybe even subcontracting out again. The margins get pinched, so the guy doing the job at the end has to use cheap labour, cheap products and do the job in a rush; time is money!

IG: Can you think of some real life cases where cost-cutting has been exposed?

SI: Pacific Wharf in London, a luxury flats development round Greenwich way. Prices from a quarter of a million pounds but residents suffered with damp issues.

They started taking the walls down to investigate and the fire-stopping was missing. So if fire got into a cavity or void it could have spread through the building. Fortunately it was discovered before a fire; everyone had to leave the building during the remedial works.  It cost them over half a million to put it right.

IG: Doesn’t someone have to sign it off as fire-safe during construction?

SI: Building control are under competitive pressure now, because it’s an open market with approved inspectors and local authority all bidding for the same work.

As with all competitive markets they find they have to offer their services for less and less or reduce the scope of provision to a minimum, so on-site inspections are less frequent; they’re not checking everything that’s going in to the build.

They may be on a site visit when some of the fire protection work is being done and if they spot problems they will pick it up, but a lot of the fire protection is built into the building – it’s hidden – so you can’t actually see it on a completion visit. There’s only a very part time referee, if you like.

IG: Presumably the inspection regime in Ireland is little better given the Priory Hall fiasco in Ireland [residents had to permanently evacuate the building, which didn’t meet fire-safety standards]…

 SI: The new building control regulations in Ireland have the potential to be brilliant for fire safety; if the standards are adopted in the spirit they were intended and the support systems are put in place. However, without the support of robust third party certification and adequate enforcement/prosecution for those who take short cuts; it could have little effect in resolving the issues like those seen in Priory Hall.

IG: How often do commercial premises have the wrong materials/systems?

SI: There was an excellent study completed in New Zealand which looked at existing commercial building stock; the findings in that study would I feel be reflected in a similar study here in the UK. A very significant number of properties across different uses and ages did not meet the basic requirements for fire safety. Many of the properties found wanting did not represent a threat to life but had property protection and business continuity issues.

IG: Why do you think that is?

SI: Fire just isn’t high on the priority of those who operate most types of buildings. There are many other priorities; looking after the broken heating or clearing the blocked toilets or making the next sale are often more important than repairing a fire door; they have more immediate needs. After all they are not expecting to have a fire, no one does.

Fires are not that common now and it isn’t until you have had one that you fully appreciate the devastation it can cause. It’s a bit like when people get burgled; after the event they add security to their houses. Why didn’t they do it before?

Cost is also an issue; there’s a big debate about care homes now, about their ability to evacuate residents safely in the night. They are supposed to, in theory, be able to evacuate everyone in a fire if they need to – but with only a few staff on the night shift to keep costs down, it can be almost impossible to follow the evacuation plan.

In a tough economic climate; cutting staff training, delaying or not making repairs to fire safety installations and when they do have complete work they are looking for cheaper products and cheaper installers, is what owners and operators need to do in order to keep trading.

There is no doubt in my mind that the potential for another major fatality fire here in the UK is real.

Simon Ince, UK Strategic Alliance and Partnership Manager at Exova Warrington Certification, is scheduled to discuss the barriers to building fire-safe buildings at IFSEC International 2014 

Where? Installers & Maintenance Theatre. When? 18 June between 12:30pm-1pm 

If you’ve registered for FIREX International then Simon would be happy to chat to you about this and other fire-safety topics at the Exova Warringtonfire stand – number R720.

Exova Warrington Certification is also launching a guide – written by Simon – to third-party certification for due diligence at the show.

2023 Fire Safety eBook – Grab your free copy!

Download the Fire Safety in 2023 eBook, keeping you up to date with the biggest news and prosecution stories from around the industry. Chapters include important updates such as the Fire Safety (England) Regulations 2022 and an overview of the new British Standard for the digital management of fire safety information.

Plus, we explore the growing risks of lithium-ion battery fires and hear from experts in disability evacuation and social housing.

FireSafetyeBook-CoverPage-23

Related Topics

Subscribe
Notify of
guest
2 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
AndyLuke
May 21, 2014 2:44 pm

A very informative article by Simon Ince. It really shows how much of an importance cost is when dealing with all types of safety!! As a reputable company we always advocate quality over cost. I am always banging on to Business owners about getting a proper fire risk assessment carried out in the first place instead of some of the cheap “tick Box” assessments that seem to litter the internet and other businesses too! You pay for what you get. If an assessment is only costing £100 then that’s all you are going to get, which isn’t a lot. Ask… Read more »

Alan Cox
Alan Cox
May 27, 2014 9:01 am

A Lesson in Economics When I worked for a major financial institution I was summoned by the Global Head of IT and asked how I was going to protect his Data Centres around the world? Having previously worked with the Fire Service and NHS cost was at the top of my mind and I replied “well fire protection is expensive” and he replied “how expensive” and I replied “if you take this Data Centre it will cost over a million pounds to provide the level of fire protection that it deserves” to which he replied ” peanuts – if this… Read more »

Topics: