Now, a week on, IFSEC Global has seen a copy of the report compiled by BRE Global for Stoke-on-Trent City Council, and the images that inspectors took show the scale of the problems with the six doors inspected.
In the report, BRE Global reported that it was not possible to conclude that the doorsets would meet the required 30-minute fire resistance, due to a high level of defects. Inspectors also continued to explain that the fire doors were installed into partitions that should also be fire-rated to 30 minutes, but that have been incorrectly built.
Click on the image below to see the full set of images showing the range of defects in the fire doors inspected by BRE Global and Stoke City Council.
In an accompanying statement to the report, Stoke City Council told us:
The report concludes that BRE found a high level of defects in the fitting of the flat, foyer and electric cupboard doors and frames by Kier and their subcontractors. Kier has accepted full responsibility for the defects and will remedy the work at their own expense.
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I got the first 2 pictures of (18) Rob, then error code. Is that just me? would enjoy looking at those!
Cancel previous, have viewed them all now. I assume Bodgit & Scarper were paid cash?
These photographs of the badly fitted doors illustrate how some builders/carpenters seem to think ‘that will do’ atttude. It was reassuring that the company has taken it onboard to rectify all the faults that were picked up.The fitting of fire doors must be carried out by competent persons, the fitter should know;1) why this door is being fitted2) what it is supposed to achieve3) fitted so that it closes within its door frame with no gaps 4) educated in the use of intumescent foam, that it is designed for gaps no greater that approx 12 mm, and where to fit intumescent collars,… Read more »
Although agreeing with Ritchie I would say that it is not so easy to detect these issues on a Type 1 FRA as specified by most clients. I would normally look into the risers where it is easier to detect the lack of filling between the door and frame, or I would report where I find architraves that are clearly of excessive width and suspect that they are concealing some poor workmanship however unless I remove architraves then these issues are generally not found. Many clients still go for the cheapest FRA option and are not concerned regarding competence –… Read more »
At first it is easy to blame the installer for not doing a correct job. It is easy to be angry at the installer is putting peoples’ lives at risk, It is easy to be angry because somebody paid good money for this and have been ripped off. The real person to be angry with is the person who signed this job off as meeting standards. That maybe an inspector at Kier or one working for the council, but they should be sacked.There will always be poor tradesmen, rip off artists, when the job is properly run, they should not… Read more »
I have looked at some of the photos given regarding the incorrect installation and have the following points to raise, Only if the manufacturers certification and test evidence states, do you need to fit Interdens under the hingers, lock face etc in a FD30 Doorset of which some photos clearly show a softwod frame and ply faced door, indicating FD30. You can use plastic packers to install a frame/doorset if FD30 but not if FD60 where Hardwood Packers are to be used. Primarily whilst we all have our own thoughts and observations regarding some of this poor installation, are we… Read more »
Another Point to raise is that you can use Fire Foam to fill gaps as long as there is a mineral wool backing/plug dependant on the manufacturer you can fire foam upto 50mm wide by sometimes 100mm deep with the correct configuration and test evidence. There is an increasing scare mongering tactic happening where certain manufacturers are stating that Fire Foam is not any good and being used incorrectly and should not be used, these same manufacturers are selling their same fire foam etc for use in same areas. Again you should always refer to manufacturers test evidence to gain… Read more »
There are courses available for fire door installers and there are fire door installer schemes. The Fire Door Inspection Scheme can be studied entirely on-line so the knowledge to attain competence has never been easier to asccess.
A liittle bit of money spent on training could achieve such a lot in terms of fire door safety!
That maybe the case, so now risk assessors have to attend this course as well as being third party accredited etc.etc. do they? I had a look on the website GB pound 500 seems to be the cheapest price for non members for the basic course. Oh well add this to the points made in my post Are all non registered fire risk assessor incompetent? in June this year. All this to do a type one fire risk assessment! makes you think does’nt it
This is an interesting series of images, but highlights issues which must be familiar to all of us. Not one of the problems shown here are unusual and I am sad to say that many companies that specialise in this field are guilty of creating the problems seen. I agree totally that part of the problem is with client competence, although I also agree that one should be able to rely on contractor competence and integrity. John’s pont about the fire risk assessor being unable to uncover many of these issues without carrying out more intrusive types of survey are… Read more »
Great story Rob – It’s really quite supprising how bad the quality of the work is – Not just from a fire safety [poij t of view, but in general! Who honestly thought that bodging a door frame with plastic packing was a propper instalation? Looking at this from a passive fire protection angle, its realy very frightening – having seen the results of BRE testing where penetration seals fail, you could be talking a handful of minutes fire stopping, not the half hour specified. The fact that a contractor of this size (or more likely their sub-contractor) didnt put… Read more »
The concept of having a person/inspector/body to verify that the work is done to required standards is a double protection system and blame has to be borne by all parties involved if any of them failed – installers, employers, designers, manufacturers and verifiers/inspectors, etc. – not just the last person involved. Obviously the installers are wrong in their installation, the manufacturer may be wrong in not providing the correct or sufficient information and/or training re installation (including certification of testing, compliance etc. for installation type), the designer may not have provided sufficient clarity in the design work or the design… Read more »
Just to clarify some points.
The installer, Kier Stoke, is the prefered installation and maintenance contractor for the council, a virtual monopoly.
The reason the fire doors came to note was because the residents in the properties were so appalled by the standard as seen at their neighbours etc that they were refusing to have them fitted. The primary complaint was that the installation was so poor that burglary was a real possibility, the doors would give way if kicked. The second complaint was that the fire protection was clearly not adequate.
Only just seen your first comment so I’m glad they started working! There were loads more images but this was just a selection.
It’s easy for seminar-providers to move on once they’ve given such messages, but it’s evidently important that they continually reach out to people who may not have received the message.
I also wanted to add that I agree it’s great that Kier have stepped up to take the remidial action but that I would also like to see that they are stepping up their training and vetting of sub-contractors.
Fascinating point abou your SP-205 certification. Why do you think that is? Has BAFE failed to do enough to make people aware of the certification’s value?
As you say should the doors have failed in a real incident the legal consequences would have been interesting. Would the council try to argue that Kier took an element of the responsibility when they became the approved company responsible for overseeing the work for instance?
There does seem to be a lot of misuse of fire foam though as I feel you inferred, so I would want to see contractors erring on the side of caution with its use.
Well, indeed. So what excuse for poor standards such as this? Answer: none, hence why Kier have taken full responsibility for rectifying the situation.
I suspect it would very easy to drill down and find the person/company that ultimately have passed this as “meeting the standard required” whatever that is. The very significant lesson in this, in my opinion, isn’t the debate about what wrong with it. It is that at some point in the past, it has been approved! Someone doesn’t appreciate the real peril they are putting people who will rely on those fire doors in. Also the possible prison sentence they could receive for approving them. I am a residential landlord. When a tenant moves out and leaves behind a smoke… Read more »
Interesting that even the residents could see the doors were not suitable, albeit not suitable for their protection from crime. You can’t necessarily expect them to realise that the doors are unsafe from a fire safety perspective, but that shows just how poor the situation may have been.
It does seem incredible that anyone could walk away from some of these doors and think ‘that looks great’, as the workmanship, let alone the firestopping capability, is just not what I as a customer would expect to see.
It’s not cheap being up to date, compliant, and fully certified is it? Free seminars are still around though, so the importance of attending shows like FIREX is underlined by this.
Yes that’s the essence of taking responsibility. Anything present you have to be sure it will work, and as long as you can prove that you took the due diligence in checking the contractor’s workmanship then you should be OK. But, as we know, the subjectivity of the RRO never guarantees this!
Thanks for these expert observations, it really makes the pictures come to life clearer.
The inspectors did also include the full specification of the works which I could include separately, but as you can imagine it was extensive. You’re right though that the whole chain needs to support each other, not play the blame game. However, the council had to play the blame game as they certainly would have struggled to afford to make the changes required with tight council budgets.
I think this just prooves that fire doors should be inspected only by those having the competence to do so. The question is, how does the Responsible Person know the inspector is competent if there are FRA’s claiming to do a risk assessment covering fire safety measures as a whole?
@Robert Brown: Surprised. Why don’t they guarantee it ? The reason for why its not being done that way ?
What concerns me somewhat is why is there an expansion joint just to the left of that door. Concerns that I would want to address is why is it located there, how structurally stable will the short section of the wall that the door frame is attached to, especially in a fire, (unless there is a a returning wall on the other side of that short wall – but then who puts an expansion joint in a corner location. I suspect that there could also be a design fault/problem here and the builders have worked around it?!
That’s an excellent question it doesn’t look like the door was retro fitted so why was it built that way in the first place? I know we’re ignoring the fact that the door was installed incorrectly but it seems that this might be an indicator that other things weren’t given the second look that they deserved when the building was designed and built.
It is not just about training (and that is not straight forward as which courses do assessors need plus their cost and time required attending/studying means those costs have to be reclaimed against future jobs and that makes qualified assessors considerably more expensive than those unqualified) but unless there is a single national register that lists assessors, their qualifications attained gainst date (to ensure relevance and up-to-date) and any complaints/issues/resolutions, etc. there never will be a reliable method of selecting a suitable assessor with confidence of their performance. So selecting the cheapest assessor and the cheapest installer (as well as… Read more »
@ Neil
Very good point! The person inspecting should certainly be competent to do so!
Its pretty obvious that till the time the doors are not placed in as per the specific requirements, things are bound to go wrong . Training is paramount in every field and installtion of fire safety equipment and related accessories are no different. Its the matter of life and death at the time of crisis and can not be taken lightly.
could not agree more, inspector must know and be up to date with his/her knowledge and training…
The whole building looks a little iffy, from my relatively laymans perspective. And the additional images at the end of the gallery showing other (non-fire door) faults suggests there are other problems in the buildings.
Was this building renovated? I’ve heard of similar issues around here when apartment complexes convert to condominiums and people start tearing out walls. It wouldn’t surprise me to hear that the interior of the building was changed greatly to change floor plans.
Whilst it is very easy to blame the contractor in this instance do we actually know all the facts – these aspects need to be considered before we jump to conclusions: 1. What standards did the contract specify? 2. Was the competency of the company considered before the contract was awarded? 3. Was the council representative competent to be able to supervise the work? 4. If the work was not satisfactory on completion – and the contractor was paid, why was this? These are standard requirements that any organisation should consider before awarding a contract and not just on the… Read more »
Hm, I do agree. I take some inferrence from Kier’s taking ‘full responsibility’ for the works being re-done, but as you say, someone must have signed the work off in order for the contractor to be paid. So questions should be asked of the council, who presumably would have been responsible for sign off.
Hard to say, but all of these doors were in communal areas, not inside individual flats.
There is always two sides to any story and as yet we have only seen one. The problem that I see is that clients and companies undertaking this type of work do not fully understand the complexities of the product and do not realise that this is a piece of technology and not just just a “piece of wood in a hole”. When I was researching the Fire Door Educational Package that I produced this is exactly the same situation that a large District General Hospital could have been in had it accepted the lowest quote but I was able… Read more »
@ safeNsane
That is a very good point. If the occupants did the renovations themselves its even less likely they followed any type of codes.
How were you able to prove that though, I wonder?
Rob, When I asked for the Fire Door Certificates these were only valid for single doors and when I indicated that I would not accept these because thet were mainly double door assemblies that we required they tried to assure me that the results would be the same. I am one of these people that does not take these assurances seriously unless I am convinced that the statements are true or have seen some reliable evidence. As this was a substantial order I convinced the manufacturer to have a test done which they reluclently agreed to and when they failed… Read more »
If you were wanting to install the door yourself, how would you go about to doing that? I’m trying to get one put in my home. They just make sense to me. After all, you can never be too safe. http://www.bismac.com.au/door-products
@Greg LANG are you certain about the point you make on plastic packers?